{15000}{85000}Mr. Schröder, you know
{85000}{143000}Vladimir Putin very well.
{143000}{215000}Maybe you are even with him|friends.
{215000}{334000}Understand now in this situation|still his thoughts, his motifs?
{336000}{401000}Do you still understand what drives him? Now?
{401000}{506000}I think I imagine|can do what drives him even though I
{508000}{540000}could not talk to him.
{540000}{637000}I was in Sochi|But there he was busy.
{639000}{688000}And certainly not over.
{688000}{790000}That was still|Before this situation in Ukraine.
{792000}{848000}I think he is interested in it
{848000}{937000}is to consolidate Russia,
{939000}{987000}To develop Russia economically.
{987000}{1040000}But to keep big and strong.
{1040000}{1144000}That he believes that Russia
{1146000}{1230000}act politically at the same eye level|should.
{1230000}{1305000}With the United States of America,|And that he
{1311000}{1386000}As someone who thinks historically,
{1389000}{1478000}also certain circuits, fears
{1480000}{1551000}are quite present with him.
{1551000}{1633000}When the development|Take a look at,
{1635000}{1742000}The in the past ten or 15 years|has taken place
{1744000}{1861000}Then it was clear that after the case|of the iron curtain and integration
{1861000}{1990000}the former Warsaw|Pact states in the EU and NATO
{1992000}{2079000}was clear,|that the Russia had to accept.
{2079000}{2137000}That has no question.
{2137000}{2233000}It wasn't about accepting|And it was about respect
{2235000}{2279000}The will of this peoples.
{2279000}{2319000}And we all have a bunch of it
{2319000}{2413000}contributed,|that that was in the EU and NATO.
{2415000}{2509000}Then of course came to the edges
{2511000}{2545000}the Russian
{2545000}{2643000}Federation developments,|that were certainly not suitable
{2645000}{2729000}to trigger only joy with the Russians.
{2731000}{2788000}So the circle, fears.
{2788000}{2911000}You can see that, especially in|Georgia, but also in other areas.
{2913000}{2988000}That will employ him.|No question at all.
{2990000}{3054000}Whether then the funds that are used
{3054000}{3140000}The right ones are|I would also doubt that.
{3142000}{3232000}Only the problem|Whatever you see too
{3232000}{3307000}need to|To the current questions is
{3310000}{3406000}Where are the causes of the help|For the crisis?
{3408000}{3556000}It was really right to go|and Ukraine a cultural
{3556000}{3585000}split land?
{3585000}{3665000}You have to counter|all the mainstream can say.
{3665000}{3745000}A culturally split the country namely
{3747000}{3820000}in the west, one rather
{3820000}{3905000}Europe -oriented, European|oriented population,
{3905000}{4003000}the one in large parts|is nationalistic.
{4003000}{4087000}That in what you|can also see in the language dispute
{4089000}{4179000}And in the east|and in the south, especially in the Crimea,
{4179000}{4254000}a traditional Russian
{4254000}{4366000}thinking and feeling population,|At least a majority of the population.
{4368000}{4492000}It was correct that the EU says|We introduce you to the alternative
{4494000}{4593000}Either association in the EU or
{4595000}{4704000}Participation in the customs union of the GDR,|Russian Federation
{4704000}{4797000}to build with others|able and is ready.
{4797000}{4921000}And I think that the EU in the face of the
{4923000}{4971000}the division of cultural division
{4971000}{5117000}I'm not talking about constitutional law now|the cultural division of Ukraine,
{5119000}{5232000}This either or not|should have formulated, but there
{5232000}{5327000}would have been a lot more sensible|A both and.
{5329000}{5390000}I'm going to say so far
{5390000}{5520000}the cooperation contract,|which the EU wanted to negotiate with Russia
{5520000}{5622000}And the old one|Should replace cooperation contract.
{5624000}{5747000}It would have been better if you over|Association would have negotiated with both,
{5749000}{5847000}About association with Russia|Just like with Ukraine.
{5847000}{5928000}You would have many stumbling blocks|did not have.
{5930000}{6037000}And perspective|For European interests
{6037000}{6121000}I have always been concerned with a question
{6123000}{6232000}If you take a look at me|What we are currently doing
{6234000}{6346000}Have Poland in the world, then they have|A recessed America.
{6348000}{6438000}And I go from a recovering strong|also economically strengthened America.
{6438000}{6531000}And they have Asia|Under the leadership of China.
{6531000}{6587000}You just have to go out of that.
{6587000}{6702000}And they have a Europe that doesn't know|how it should be.
{6704000}{6800000}And it can only set up|To be at the same eye level
{6800000}{6898000}With these two poles|to act politically and economically,
{6900000}{6953000}if it becomes more integrative.
{6953000}{7000000}So if we get more Europe.
{7000000}{7106000}And secondly,|If we do one when we make it
{7108000}{7170000}With all difficulties|which is currently in Turkey
{7170000}{7203000}also gives Turkey as
{7203000}{7304000}To win a member of the EU as a bridge|into the Arabic, into the Islamic world
{7304000}{7383000}and an association with Russia|get down,
{7383000}{7458000}That is the perspective|that busy me.
{7461000}{7564000}And this perspective|In any case, I arrange mentally
{7566000}{7662000}the below what I am currently|On the situation in Ukraine.
{7662000}{7763000}Let's say a few problems with|With this analysis.
{7765000}{7846000}So, Kissinger joked,|in the 19th century
{7846000}{7966000}has circled itself, Russia|expanded to Belgium every day.
{7968000}{7982000}So this one
{7982000}{8070000}Investment already has a certain one,|The circling
{8073000}{8149000}in quotation|already have a habit,
{8149000}{8264000}then relatively expansive,|if not aggressive.
{8266000}{8368000}The second problem is|that this Putin's Russia yes
{8368000}{8400000}No wish at all
{8400000}{8510000}or did not express any urging,|to associate yourself with the EU,
{8510000}{8612000}but he has on the contrary|So classic power policy of the 19th
{8612000}{8742000}Century probe a bit here,|because gain spheres of influence,
{8744000}{8772000}guided.
{8772000}{8886000}And therefore|I don't quite see this lever.
{8887000}{8980000}But even if this analysis|I am not entirely correct.
{8982000}{9056000}That doesn't justify that yet|The means that starts, right?
{9056000}{9119000}Nobody says that either.
{9119000}{9222000}I just think about it|that it is not enough to judge.
{9224000}{9363000}Naturally|Is what happens in the Crimea
{9365000}{9475000}something|is also a violation of international law.
{9477000}{9515000}But you know
{9515000}{9620000}Why I'm a little more careful|With the raised index finger?
{9620000}{9724000}I want that to you right now|In such an event, say
{9726000}{9788000}Because I did it myself.
{9788000}{9848000}What do you have. Made|violate international law?
{9848000}{9905000}We arranged.|No I have not.
{9905000}{9918000}We have.
{9918000}{9927000}A small.
{9927000}{10000000}Leave Belgium.
{10000000}{10075000}Just. Do what it really is about.
{10081000}{10155000}When it comes to the question, went
{10155000}{10239000}How does that develop in the republic|Yugoslavia?
{10241000}{10344000}Kosovo ranks we have our planes,
{10346000}{10421000}sent our tornados to Serbia,
{10422000}{10549000}And they have one together with NATO|sovereign state bombed
{10551000}{10633000}Without it|Security Council would have given a decision.
{10635000}{10704000}Oh well.
{10704000}{10764000}Without the security council|Decision given.
{10764000}{10873000}That was just like that and my predecessor|Did that also criticize this,
{10877000}{10911000}which is not very far away either
{10911000}{11015000}From what your newspaper does,|criticized that sharply.
{11017000}{11074000}Helmut, of course.
{11074000}{11181000}He said that without security|Decision does not work.
{11181000}{11250000}At the time. And formally he is right.
{11250000}{11352000}I still stand by|Because I still have in mind
{11354000}{11451000}The refugee flows and that,|What threatens, there is no question.
{11457000}{11566000}Formally,|but without a security council decision,
{11568000}{11631000}A warrior|To conduct discussion,
{11631000}{11676000}was a violation of international law.
{11676000}{11746000}Even if Mr. Joffe.
{11746000}{11833000}I heard little about criticism.
{11835000}{11888000}When it was in Iraq
{11888000}{11968000}That was so, and I'm afraid
{11970000}{12015000}And that shouldn't justify that
{12015000}{12103000}should just explain why I myself
{12105000}{12224000}With the raised index finger|I'm more careful than others.
{12224000}{12315000}Because I am this situation|And also the difficulties
{12315000}{12397000}The I then|Had my own position
{12399000}{12474000}And still have|I didn't forget that.
{12475000}{12488000}But.
{12488000}{12587000}But may I with mine|register some submissive undertone,
{12589000}{12661000}that the situation is not
{12663000}{12732000}is comparable,
{12732000}{12807000}We were right at the time.
{12807000}{12908000}We say without a decision|A country attacked,
{12910000}{13035000}But for humanitarian reasons,|as they are described themselves
{13037000}{13103000}and that has the humanitarian duty.
{13103000}{13247000}In that case, at least so|could be argued, international law,
{13249000}{13342000}About the above international law,|triumphs on international law.
{13344000}{13420000}There was here|no minority worthy of protection,
{13420000}{13472000}The only one that is protected.
{13472000}{13551000}I would say that|Because you when you
{13551000}{13661000}If you discuss this on one level,|As we sit here, see it.
{13661000}{13756000}But whether the affected people see it that way|is a completely different question.
{13758000}{13855000}You rely on that, on|that we call ourselves at the time.
{13857000}{13904000}The calling|I don't think it is valid.
{13904000}{14001000}You don't have to assume that|But that's exactly.
{14003000}{14104000}I think that|What we are currently experiencing in the Crimea,
{14106000}{14238000}that the blueprint is Kosovo,|And in two ways.
{14240000}{14269000}In me.
{14269000}{14304000}I want something. Justify.
{14304000}{14338000}Once
{14338000}{14406000}I don't say there either and bring myself|But not in a situation.
{14406000}{14433000}I see again then
{14433000}{14566000}The headline is the point of the matter|The same situation.
{14568000}{14653000}But I also tell you that|If you are the argument
{14653000}{14730000}Listen, it|At least cannot be doubted.
{14730000}{14832000}And that makes my caution in dealing with|With the raised index finger,
{14837000}{14926000}that formally in both cases against
{14928000}{14972000}the charter has been violated.
{14972000}{15071000}That was just like that|We only had a justification
{15073000}{15169000}A comment from the Secretary General|the United Nations, the back then
{15171000}{15283000}And that was not after the judgment|not sufficient.
{15283000}{15318000}And the fact
{15318000}{15439000}that it was occasionally said|That is the first humanitarian commitment,
{15441000}{15510000}who had been done was something that
{15510000}{15612000}According to the predominant opinion|at least doubtful in international law.
{15612000}{15655000}We still used it|no question at all.
{15655000}{15754000}But please understand|that then in the face of that
{15756000}{15843000}Given my own actions|that understands that for
{15843000}{15925000}I am still a situation|where I am more careful.
{15926000}{16030000}I just wish|that then also colleague Putin.
{16030000}{16041000}I would.
{16041000}{16140000}Careful how you argue now,|Because in the case of Syria,
{16140000}{16247000}Where it was really humanitarian disaster|and remains strictly pro
{16248000}{16281000}International law, we are not allowed.
{16281000}{16314000}No intervention.
{16314000}{16376000}And then he turns around and.
{16376000}{16394000}I don't know.
{16394000}{16415000}Whether you.
{16415000}{16510000}Doubt whether you are in the Syrian question,|If we are already there
{16510000}{16549000}really interpret that correctly.
{16549000}{16592000}I don't have my own information.
{16592000}{16711000}I never talked to him about it|But my impression is for his
{16713000}{16812000}his Syrian policy|And for those of the Chinese more.
{16814000}{16911000}I think you said|At the time we have
{16911000}{17022000}than about intervention in Libya|went, said we won't
{17026000}{17128000}insert a veto, then is|That cannot be denied.
{17130000}{17166000}I say that very diplomatically.
{17166000}{17320000}The Libya resolution overused|and the consequence of a
{17322000}{17384000}one|permanent members of the Security Council
{17384000}{17468000}was of course to be said|We don't want to experience that again
{17470000}{17559000}That has something to do with things|which I also hardly imagine
{17559000}{17592000}can, maybe we are all difficult
{17592000}{17697000}can introduce them, but they are, so to speak|Self -confidence of P5 members
{17703000}{17788000}concerned, so|concerned by security council members.
{17790000}{17844000}I believe,|that that played a role.
{17844000}{17935000}Nevertheless, I'm not here|to justify anything.
{17935000}{18012000}I just said,|Kosovo could be the blueprint, by the way
{18012000}{18133000}also in another dimension,|namely what the
{18135000}{18267000}As for the question|Referendum or not?
{18269000}{18298000}What does that mean?
{18298000}{18331000}What do you mean by that?
{18331000}{18390000}Well, it is said.
{18390000}{18515000}The detriment of the referendum|Is problematic under international law
{18517000}{18580000}is illegal.
{18580000}{18670000}I have a little bit|tried to make knowledgeable.
{18672000}{18746000}In the case of international lawyers.
{18746000}{18819000}And I found one|who comments on this.
{18819000}{18853000}There is always one.
{18853000}{18973000}No, no, so that's special|verses international law.
{18975000}{19041000}There it says,
{19041000}{19107000}The Kosovo|was allowed to split off Serbia,
{19107000}{19189000}says the International Court of Justice|In the Hague.
{19191000}{19238000}And then it goes on.
{19238000}{19281000}However, the judges were smart.
{19281000}{19330000}You just said|know international law
{19330000}{19450000}No prohibition of declaration of independence.
{19452000}{19545000}This is the international lawyer|Josef Joffe. 26.
{19546000}{19752000}September 2010.
{19754000}{19797000}Chapeau that.