[00:00.60]Mr. Schröder, you know
[00:03.40]Vladimir Putin very well.
[00:05.72]Maybe you are even with him
friends.
[00:08.60]Understand now in this situation
still his thoughts, his motifs?
[00:13.44]Do you still understand what drives him? Now?
[00:16.04]I think I imagine
can do what drives him even though I
[00:20.32]could not talk to him.
[00:21.60]I was in Sochi
But there he was busy.
[00:25.56]And certainly not over.
[00:27.52]That was still
Before this situation in Ukraine.
[00:31.68]I think he is interested in it
[00:33.92]is to consolidate Russia,
[00:37.56]To develop Russia economically.
[00:39.48]But to keep big and strong.
[00:41.60]That he believes that Russia
[00:45.84]act politically at the same eye level
should.
[00:49.20]With the United States of America,
And that he
[00:52.44]As someone who thinks historically,
[00:55.56]also certain circuits, fears
[00:59.20]are quite present with him.
[01:02.04]When the development
Take a look at,
[01:05.40]The in the past ten or 15 years
has taken place
[01:09.76]Then it was clear that after the case
of the iron curtain and integration
[01:14.44]the former Warsaw
Pact states in the EU and NATO
[01:19.68]was clear,
that the Russia had to accept.
[01:23.16]That has no question.
[01:25.48]It wasn't about accepting
And it was about respect
[01:29.40]The will of this peoples.
[01:31.16]And we all have a bunch of it
[01:32.76]contributed,
that that was in the EU and NATO.
[01:36.60]Then of course came to the edges
[01:40.44]the Russian
[01:41.80]Federation developments,
that were certainly not suitable
[01:45.80]to trigger only joy with the Russians.
[01:49.24]So the circle, fears.
[01:51.52]You can see that, especially in
Georgia, but also in other areas.
[01:56.52]That will employ him.
No question at all.
[01:59.60]Whether then the funds that are used
[02:02.16]The right ones are
I would also doubt that.
[02:05.68]Only the problem
Whatever you see too
[02:09.28]need to
To the current questions is
[02:12.40]Where are the causes of the help
For the crisis?
[02:16.32]It was really right to go
and Ukraine a cultural
[02:22.24]split land?
[02:23.40]You have to counter
all the mainstream can say.
[02:26.60]A culturally split the country namely
[02:29.88]in the west, one rather
[02:32.80]Europe -oriented, European
oriented population,
[02:36.20]the one in large parts
is nationalistic.
[02:40.12]That in what you
can also see in the language dispute
[02:43.56]And in the east
and in the south, especially in the Crimea,
[02:47.16]a traditional Russian
[02:50.16]thinking and feeling population,
At least a majority of the population.
[02:54.72]It was correct that the EU says
We introduce you to the alternative
[02:59.76]Either association in the EU or
[03:03.80]Participation in the customs union of the GDR,
Russian Federation
[03:08.16]to build with others
able and is ready.
[03:11.88]And I think that the EU in the face of the
[03:16.92]the division of cultural division
[03:18.84]I'm not talking about constitutional law now
the cultural division of Ukraine,
[03:24.76]This either or not
should have formulated, but there
[03:29.28]would have been a lot more sensible
A both and.
[03:33.16]I'm going to say so far
[03:35.60]the cooperation contract,
which the EU wanted to negotiate with Russia
[03:40.80]And the old one
Should replace cooperation contract.
[03:44.96]It would have been better if you over
Association would have negotiated with both,
[03:49.96]About association with Russia
Just like with Ukraine.
[03:53.88]You would have many stumbling blocks
did not have.
[03:57.20]And perspective
For European interests
[04:01.48]I have always been concerned with a question
[04:04.92]If you take a look at me
What we are currently doing
[04:09.36]Have Poland in the world, then they have
A recessed America.
[04:13.92]And I go from a recovering strong
also economically strengthened America.
[04:17.52]And they have Asia
Under the leadership of China.
[04:21.24]You just have to go out of that.
[04:23.48]And they have a Europe that doesn't know
how it should be.
[04:28.16]And it can only set up
To be at the same eye level
[04:32.00]With these two poles
to act politically and economically,
[04:36.00]if it becomes more integrative.
[04:38.12]So if we get more Europe.
[04:40.00]And secondly,
If we do one when we make it
[04:44.32]With all difficulties
which is currently in Turkey
[04:46.80]also gives Turkey as
[04:48.12]To win a member of the EU as a bridge
into the Arabic, into the Islamic world
[04:52.16]and an association with Russia
get down,
[04:55.32]That is the perspective
that busy me.
[04:58.44]And this perspective
In any case, I arrange mentally
[05:02.64]the below what I am currently
On the situation in Ukraine.
[05:06.48]Let's say a few problems with
With this analysis.
[05:10.60]So, Kissinger joked,
in the 19th century
[05:13.84]has circled itself, Russia
expanded to Belgium every day.
[05:18.72]So this one
[05:19.28]Investment already has a certain one,
The circling
[05:22.92]in quotation
already have a habit,
[05:25.96]then relatively expansive,
if not aggressive.
[05:30.64]The second problem is
that this Putin's Russia yes
[05:34.72]No wish at all
[05:36.00]or did not express any urging,
to associate yourself with the EU,
[05:40.40]but he has on the contrary
So classic power policy of the 19th
[05:44.48]Century probe a bit here,
because gain spheres of influence,
[05:49.76]guided.
[05:50.88]And therefore
I don't quite see this lever.
[05:55.48]But even if this analysis
I am not entirely correct.
[05:59.28]That doesn't justify that yet
The means that starts, right?
[06:02.24]Nobody says that either.
[06:04.76]I just think about it
that it is not enough to judge.
[06:08.96]Naturally
Is what happens in the Crimea
[06:14.60]something
is also a violation of international law.
[06:19.08]But you know
[06:20.60]Why I'm a little more careful
With the raised index finger?
[06:24.80]I want that to you right now
In such an event, say
[06:29.04]Because I did it myself.
[06:31.52]What do you have. Made
violate international law?
[06:33.92]We arranged.
No I have not.
[06:36.20]We have.
[06:36.72]A small.
[06:37.08]Leave Belgium.
[06:40.00]Just. Do what it really is about.
[06:43.24]When it comes to the question, went
[06:46.20]How does that develop in the republic
Yugoslavia?
[06:49.64]Kosovo ranks we have our planes,
[06:53.84]sent our tornados to Serbia,
[06:56.88]And they have one together with NATO
sovereign state bombed
[07:02.04]Without it
Security Council would have given a decision.
[07:05.40]Oh well.
[07:08.16]Without the security council
Decision given.
[07:10.56]That was just like that and my predecessor
Did that also criticize this,
[07:15.08]which is not very far away either
[07:16.44]From what your newspaper does,
criticized that sharply.
[07:20.68]Helmut, of course.
[07:22.96]He said that without security
Decision does not work.
[07:27.24]At the time. And formally he is right.
[07:30.00]I still stand by
Because I still have in mind
[07:34.16]The refugee flows and that,
What threatens, there is no question.
[07:38.28]Formally,
but without a security council decision,
[07:42.72]A warrior
To conduct discussion,
[07:45.24]was a violation of international law.
[07:47.04]Even if Mr. Joffe.
[07:49.84]I heard little about criticism.
[07:53.40]When it was in Iraq
[07:55.52]That was so, and I'm afraid
[07:58.80]And that shouldn't justify that
[08:00.60]should just explain why I myself
[08:04.20]With the raised index finger
I'm more careful than others.
[08:08.96]Because I am this situation
And also the difficulties
[08:12.60]The I then
Had my own position
[08:15.96]And still have
I didn't forget that.
[08:19.00]But.
[08:19.52]But may I with mine
register some submissive undertone,
[08:23.56]that the situation is not
[08:26.52]is comparable,
[08:29.28]We were right at the time.
[08:32.28]We say without a decision
A country attacked,
[08:36.40]But for humanitarian reasons,
as they are described themselves
[08:41.48]and that has the humanitarian duty.
[08:44.12]In that case, at least so
could be argued, international law,
[08:49.96]About the above international law,
triumphs on international law.
[08:53.76]There was here
no minority worthy of protection,
[08:56.80]The only one that is protected.
[08:58.88]I would say that
Because you when you
[09:02.04]If you discuss this on one level,
As we sit here, see it.
[09:06.44]But whether the affected people see it that way
is a completely different question.
[09:10.32]You rely on that, on
that we call ourselves at the time.
[09:14.28]The calling
I don't think it is valid.
[09:16.16]You don't have to assume that
But that's exactly.
[09:20.12]I think that
What we are currently experiencing in the Crimea,
[09:24.24]that the blueprint is Kosovo,
And in two ways.
[09:29.60]In me.
[09:30.76]I want something. Justify.
[09:32.16]Once
[09:33.52]I don't say there either and bring myself
But not in a situation.
[09:36.24]I see again then
[09:37.32]The headline is the point of the matter
The same situation.
[09:42.72]But I also tell you that
If you are the argument
[09:46.12]Listen, it
At least cannot be doubted.
[09:49.20]And that makes my caution in dealing with
With the raised index finger,
[09:53.48]that formally in both cases against
[09:57.12]the charter has been violated.
[09:58.88]That was just like that
We only had a justification
[10:02.92]A comment from the Secretary General
the United Nations, the back then
[10:06.84]And that was not after the judgment
not sufficient.
[10:11.32]And the fact
[10:12.72]that it was occasionally said
That is the first humanitarian commitment,
[10:17.64]who had been done was something that
[10:20.40]According to the predominant opinion
at least doubtful in international law.
[10:24.48]We still used it
no question at all.
[10:26.20]But please understand
that then in the face of that
[10:30.24]Given my own actions
that understands that for
[10:33.72]I am still a situation
where I am more careful.
[10:37.04]I just wish
that then also colleague Putin.
[10:41.20]I would.
[10:41.64]Careful how you argue now,
Because in the case of Syria,
[10:45.60]Where it was really humanitarian disaster
and remains strictly pro
[10:49.92]International law, we are not allowed.
[10:51.24]No intervention.
[10:52.56]And then he turns around and.
[10:55.04]I don't know.
[10:55.76]Whether you.
[10:56.60]Doubt whether you are in the Syrian question,
If we are already there
[11:00.40]really interpret that correctly.
[11:01.96]I don't have my own information.
[11:03.68]I never talked to him about it
But my impression is for his
[11:08.52]his Syrian policy
And for those of the Chinese more.
[11:12.56]I think you said
At the time we have
[11:16.44]than about intervention in Libya
went, said we won't
[11:21.04]insert a veto, then is
That cannot be denied.
[11:25.20]I say that very diplomatically.
[11:26.64]The Libya resolution overused
and the consequence of a
[11:32.88]one
permanent members of the Security Council
[11:35.36]was of course to be said
We don't want to experience that again
[11:38.80]That has something to do with things
which I also hardly imagine
[11:42.36]can, maybe we are all difficult
[11:43.68]can introduce them, but they are, so to speak
Self -confidence of P5 members
[11:48.12]concerned, so
concerned by security council members.
[11:51.60]I believe,
that that played a role.
[11:53.76]Nevertheless, I'm not here
to justify anything.
[11:57.40]I just said,
Kosovo could be the blueprint, by the way
[12:00.48]also in another dimension,
namely what the
[12:05.40]As for the question
Referendum or not?
[12:10.76]What does that mean?
[12:11.92]What do you mean by that?
[12:13.24]Well, it is said.
[12:15.60]The detriment of the referendum
Is problematic under international law
[12:20.68]is illegal.
[12:23.20]I have a little bit
tried to make knowledgeable.
[12:26.88]In the case of international lawyers.
[12:29.84]And I found one
who comments on this.
[12:32.76]There is always one.
[12:34.12]No, no, so that's special
verses international law.
[12:39.00]There it says,
[12:41.64]The Kosovo
was allowed to split off Serbia,
[12:44.28]says the International Court of Justice
In the Hague.
[12:47.64]And then it goes on.
[12:49.52]However, the judges were smart.
[12:51.24]You just said
know international law
[12:53.20]No prohibition of declaration of independence.
[12:58.08]This is the international lawyer
Josef Joffe. 26.
[13:01.84]September 2010.
[13:10.16]Chapeau that.